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[digitaltopia]

@Larkitect 42735 wrote:

i guess i’ll just wait for one of you guys to chime in with a review.

i am not sitting through 3 hours of political bullshit if that’s what it turns out to be. i go to the movies to be entertained. i go to church to hear preaching.

a movie can be a venue for a social statement (district 9) without being a showcase for a political agenda (the day after tomorrow).

Here here.

[rob]

I don’t think that will be the case — I also think that from what I’ve read, you’ll be so overcome by the fact that you will be FUCKED IN YOUR EYEBALLS for two and a half hours, you won’t care.

I have read some negative reviews, but mostly they say that the story really didn’t live up — but most I’ve read say that the experience is so full, the fact that the story isn’t 100% original doesn’t matter. As Roger Ebert says, and I like to quote all the time, “A movie is not what it’s about, it’s how it’s about it.” The Matrix and Star Wars are perfect examples of old stories being told in a new way.

We shall see! Oh yes. We most certainly shall.

[digitaltopia]

For me, fantastic visuals and cinematics can shore up a story that’s not that strong, but politics is really where I draw the line. It doesn’t matter how fantastic a movie’s visuals are, if it preaches politics I will be completely turned off by it.

I do like politics, I just don’t agree with the politics of most of the people that make movies, and if I want some politics, I’ll go to purely political sources. If I’m watching a movie, as Larkitect said, I want to be entertained. I want it to be a good emotional, visceral, or cerebral experience. They can leave their politics home, in their pants.

[rob]

How do you see the chance of having politics in the movie at all? I don’t think the Na’vi will be proclaiming that Obama’s doing a great job or anything, or some dragon thing flying by with an ad for Going Rogue on it.

My curiosity stems from the fact that I’m totally politics-agnostic. What’s the last big mainstream movie that pushed a heavy-political stance, in your opinion? I simply would like to know what you’re seeing…

[digitaltopia]

It could get political for the reasons I already stated. The politics of racial tension, and especially the politics of environmentalism.

I generally try to steer clear of movies I know ahead of time are going to be political, so the last example I can give is Wall*E. Lots of good visuals, yes, drenched in environmentalist political poo.

[Larkitect]

@rob 42740 wrote:

How do you see the chance of having politics in the movie at all? I don’t think the Na’vi will be proclaiming that Obama’s doing a great job or anything, or some dragon thing flying by with an ad for Going Rogue on it.

My curiosity stems from the fact that I’m totally politics-agnostic. What’s the last big mainstream movie that pushed a heavy-political stance, in your opinion? I simply would like to know what you’re seeing…

when we say ‘politics’ i don’t think (at least in my case) that we’re talking about george w. bush vs. obama because being a blithering fucktard is not limited to a particular political party. in this context, when i say ‘political’ i’m talking about the environmentalism agenda. the most recent mainstream movie i can think of that did this was the remake of the day the earth stood still.

but let me be clear, i’m really looking forward to avatar and have heard tons of great things about it (that it is this generations star wars) and i don’t think we’re saying that these kinds of political movies are pervasive. but if there ever was a movie in a prime position to be political, it would be a movie like avatar.

i really don’t know anything about james cameron’s political views, i just know he makes damn good movies. but just from the premise i could see this film spouting the evil of western imperialism or that eating nuts and berries and living in the woods is good and the domestic comforts of technology are always buttressed by military technology and thus should be avoided. i don’t think this will be the case for avatar i just hadn’t thought about it until i read digital’s post. as long as avatar keeps the anti-tech ranting to a dull roar like it was in star wars i’m sure it will indeed be an instant classic just based on what i’ve heard.

[edit:] oh yeah, forgot about wall•e. i think wall•e didn’t bother me because i felt pixar meant well and during the director’s commentary he flat out denied that they had any sort of agenda with the film, so given their pedigree i’ll give pixar the benefit of the doubt. man, wall•e was such a good movie. its startling how good the animation and detail are in that movie. but i can see how someone could interpret it differently and this is probably why i don’t enjoy the second

My essence still senses Bucho's women.

[Bucho]

@digitaltopia 42741 wrote:

It could get political for the reasons I already stated. The politics of racial tension, and especially the politics of environmentalism.

I generally try to steer clear of movies I know ahead of time are going to be political, so the last example I can give is Wall*E. Lots of good visuals, yes, drenched in environmentalist political poo.

I can sympathize with those views mate, but keep in mind this is a James Cameron film, I’m pretty sure any political themes will really just be half-developed backdrops for the dude’s hugely developed technological muscles. Aliens was plenty political in terms of having the trite, simplistic anti-capitalist bent of big evil corporations = bad because they see human beings as expendable, and I had no problem with that because I watch it for the scares and the action and the way it’s just backdrop stops it from feeling preachy.

Besides, isn’t all the best sci-fi is political because it’s about commenting on human nature and/or human behaviour in advanced societies? That isn’t to say that politics always indicates good sci-fi, because some of it is horrendously handled, it’s just to say that politics doesn’t automatically indicate bad sci-fi.

- Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

[Bucho]

@Larkitect 42742 wrote:

[edit part deux:] the fact that this could be the next star wars has me very excited. my love of films is what drives my opinion on this, not my political leanings.

I feel the same way, hoping that the hokey dialogue doesn’t derail the emotional attachment to the characters. Because Star Wars has some hokey shit in it but still works because those actors made it work. I haven’t seen anything yet to suggest Sam Worthington is anywhere near the league of Harrison Ford (in fact he seemed kind of bland in the Avatar Day preview stuff) but Zoe Saldana was really good in Star Trek and Sigourney Weaver is always good, so although it’s my main worry – because ultimately if you can’t sell the dialogue then you can’t sell the story and then the fancy graphics mean much less – I’m still hopeful.

- Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

[digitaltopia]

@Bucho 42744 wrote:

I can sympathize with those views mate, but keep in mind this is a James Cameron film, I’m pretty sure any political themes will really just be half-developed backdrops for the dude’s hugely developed technological muscles. Aliens was plenty political in terms of having the trite, simplistic anti-capitalist bent of big evil corporations = bad because they see human beings as expendable, and I had no problem with that because I watch it for the scares and the action and the way it’s just backdrop stops it from feeling preachy.

Besides, isn’t all the best sci-fi is political because it’s about commenting on human nature and/or human behaviour in advanced societies? That isn’t to say that politics always indicates good sci-fi, because some of it is horrendously handled, it’s just to say that politics doesn’t automatically indicate bad sci-fi.

I also don’t mind a light sprinkling of politics, when it’s used just as a setting, just as a backdrop, as you said. I just don’t like it when a movie’s main theme, when its main point, is politics. I’m not saying that’s the way Avatar is because of course I don’t know yet, but like Lark said, there’s a lot of potential for Avatar to be that way. But then again like you said, it could just as easily go the other way. If it does indeed go the other way, I will be more than happy to go watch and embrace Dances with Smurfs.

If this truly is the new Star Wars, does that mean it and a few sequels will be great, which they’ll then release on about 50 different DVD / Blu-ray / holocube sets, then they’ll write a few more movies in the series that’ll be drivel and not match up well with the originals and they’ll say there’s nothing really mystic about the aliens after all because it’s all about the midichlorians which they anally inject into themselves using special plants?

But you know one aspect of the movie I already like? The mechs / power suits. I’ve always been a fan of mechs and power suits, ever since Battletech and watching anime when I was young, before it sucked, when it was mostly all for adults, before it got really popular, and from Warhammer 40k.

Oh yeah, and the promise of blue alien CG love porn. I’m tired. I should stop talking now and go to bed.

[Larkitect]

@Bucho 42744 wrote:

Besides, isn’t all the best sci-fi is political because it’s about commenting on human nature and/or human behaviour in advanced societies?[/red] That isn’t to say that politics always indicates good sci-fi, because some of it is horrendously handled, it’s just to say that politics doesn’t automatically indicate bad sci-fi.

yeah, you’re absolutely right. good point. haven’t thought of it like that. that’s what made me such a fan of star trek. they always dealt with topical issues in a way that promoted thoughtful discussion. they didn’t make you feel like you were being lectured.

thanks bucho. you just made me realize what the tipping point for me is. i don’t mind topical subject matter as long as the media treats me as an intelligent viewer capable of rational thinking. i take offence when i’m talked down to or treated like an idiot. perfect. no joke, i really just had an epiphany. awesome, you beautiful kiwi. 🙂

given james cameron’s track record, avatar really is poised to change the face of cinema. i’m really excited.

[edit] just found this avatar review.

Quote:

The movie’s other big problem is somewhat related: It gets preachy about environmentalism, to an extent that may grate on your nerves. Early on, when Jake is learning about the nature-loving ways of the Na’Vi, he grumbles that he hopes this “tree-hugger crap” won’t be on the final exam. And it totally is.

But like I said, Avatar is otherwise a nearly perfect movie. (It’s up to you whether stereotypical native peoples or eco-lectures are a deal-breaker.)

well, i’ll just have to watch it for myself before i make a final call. people said wall•e was preachy, i didn’t think it was. so i’ll just have to wait and see. i look forward to bryan and rob (or any of you guys) giving some of their opinions after they watch it.

My essence still senses Bucho's women.

[Bing]

okay….who wants to give a 3 word review???

[digitaltopia]

Happy in Paraguay.

[Bucho]

I know the three words you’re getting at Bing but I think the smurfs comparisons are a little unfair. I mean, sure you’ve got humans trying to exploit goofy looking blue guys who live in the forest = Gargamel vs the smurfs, and I’m sure eventually I’ll jack it to the Na’vi chick as many times as I’ve jacked it to Smurfette, but the Na’vi have nowhere near the firepower of Jokey’s bombs and Gargamel never sported any badass scars across his face while spouting cheeseball military cliches.

I read the AICN review yesterday and it tempered my expectations a little, he didn’t salivate over it as much as the first reviews I caught. And that can only be a good thing really, I think for me it’s always better to go in a little skeptical and not expect awesomeness, so that when something does turn out awesome it’s a cool surprise (like it was with Star Trek and District 9 this year), but when it doesn’t I don’t get all pissed off and disappointed and feel like I wasted my money.

Also, nice one Lark, I guess I did at least one thing right today. Not just Wall-E but District 9, now we mention it, had a definite, strong political stance too, but never forgot that it was first and foremost an action movie at heart, so it never felt like it was explicitly preaching its message, just showing it implicitly like all the best films do. But I gave up getting pissed off at entertainers who treat their audience as if they’re 12 years old a while ago. I find I can enjoy a LOT of dumb films just as much as I enjoy the smart ones as long as they don’t take themselves too seriously. Transformers and Armageddon, for example, fall squarely into that category (don’t hit me Robby). Diss Michael Bay all you want for how cheeseball and cliched his films are, at least he’s not out there preaching any kind of agenda beyond “explosions and slomo can be really cool”. He’s not in Spielberg or Scorcese’s league, obviously, but then he’s never made any claims at profundity or even artistry really, he’s just a classic populist – out there to try and make some fun movies that’ll make a lot of people happy.

Cameron, at his best, has been of the same bent, only he was even better than Bay. His movies have always featured hokey dialogue and creaky scripts too, but he’s a master of action set-piece spectacle, and has long been part of the technological avant garde of blockbuster SFX. And so far in his career he’s let the action take the lead ahead of any serious attempt at trying to present the beware-of-becoming-dependent-on-technology message which runs through his films (including Titanic), and which is richly ironic considering how much he not only whole-heartedly embraces but actively pushes the most advanced tech available in the making of those films.

But I mostly agree with what you said; the films that let me down are the ones that are treating the audience like it’s composed of juvenile intellects while also aiming for a sense of the profound.

- Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

[digitaltopia]

You realize the next step is Na’vi Realdolls.

[Larkitect]

yeah, star trek and district 9 are two of the best sci-fi movies we’ve had in years and they couldn’t be more different in terms of tone.

disctrict 9 (made for $30 million, about $5 million less than the hangover) is a perfect example of how to do a movie with a message. you can watch it on one level purely as a sci-fi action movie and if you want to dig deeper you can, but you don’t have to. in addition to it being the best movie i’ve ever seen that follows a video game styled outline without being based on a video game.

and excellent insight into avatar being a reboot of the smurf franchise! haha

@digitaltopia 42766 wrote:

You realize the next step is Na’vi Realdolls.

well, that one chick is kind of hot.

My essence still senses Bucho's women.

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