February 8, 2013 at 2:53 pm #31926
@Bucho 50255 wrote:
Also that I love you but your arguments also seem identical to the ones some people made defending Transformers PLEASE DON’T HIT ME!!!
I see what you’re saying. I mean, if I should just be happy with what I got with Watchmen, why can’t I be like that with TF? Very simple. Snyder and co. did everything they could to be as faithful to the comic and made choices to change some things to try to make the best movie possible. Bay and co. make idiotic decisions because they are playing to the lowest common denominator in order to try and maximize profits. Michael Bay and Paul W.S. Anderson are cut from the same mold. Look him up. They both make absolutely terrible movies, it’s just that Bay has somehow convinced people that he’s worthy of a bigger budget.February 8, 2013 at 3:46 pm #31892Version3Keymaster
Blowing shit up costs a lot… especially expensive shit.February 8, 2013 at 10:10 pm #31908
But I think you say that as someone who had prior investment in the property Robby. You don’t realise this as a kid, but Transformers, as an entertainment property, was always about lowest common denominator. It was invented to sell toys. Peeps have hassled George for how he’s milked Star Wars in merch terms but at least that was art before it was merch. Transformers is and always was 100% an advertisement for toys. I’ve always agreed with you that the pee humour stepped over a line and that the action scenes suck ass but the rest of that movie’s story isn’t a whole lot different from a few Spielberg kid-out-of-his-depth movies we can think of. The first Bay Transformers movie is written about as well as Super 8 as far as Speilberg homages go. The performances and tones of the films themselves are wildly different, but purely in terms of writing they’re about on par.
If you think about how much your existing connection to Transformers affected your enjoyment of what’s not actually a poorly made film overall you can understand where a lot of Trek fans hated JJ’s version of Star Trek. Maybe I only think this because I’m on the outside, not having been a fan of Trek or Transformers as a kid, but I don’t think I’m completely crazy to suggest it. Don’t make me bring your boy Ebert into this.
Then again, I’ve loved hearing you rant furiously against Bay’s Transformers on more than one of your solo shows so I don’t really want to change your mind too badly. I’ve also seen the 1986 movie twice now and am an unabashed fan of it so I can see where some childhood love for the property might have come from.
Back to JJ and co though, what do you think of Giacchino? I think he’s really damn good at adapting and arranging existing themes and writing new ones which compliment them. I’d be more than happy to hear he’s scoring the new Star Wars.
- Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.February 9, 2013 at 12:34 am #31927
What’s the movie called? Transformers? Huh. How much were they in the movie? 35, 40%? Hm.
I can see your point, but TF is just bad. ST is not a bad movie, and definitely didn’t play to the lowest common denominator.
Giacchino would be interesting. Who else is there? Hans Zimmer? Thomas Newman? Howard Shore?February 9, 2013 at 3:02 am #31909
What’s Jaws called? How much was the shark in the movie? What’s Close Encounters of the Third Kind called? How much of that movie is a close encounter of the third kind? Or even of the fourth kind?!? What’s Inglourious Basterds called? Why are the Basterds only in 35, 40% of it? Why was there such a lack of Willy in Free Willy? WHEN I RENT A MOVIE CALLED “CHARIOTS OF FIRE” THERE BETTER BE SOME ACTUAL CHARIOTS AND SOME ACTUAL FIRE IN IT SO HELP ME JEBUS!!!
Making the movie about a human working with the Transformers instead of the Transformers themselves being the central characters was a smart move. Because the Transformers themselves are barely even characters. They’re far too ridiculous in concept to be anything other than cartoonish, so a movie about the Transformers themselves is never anything more than a children’s film. But a story about human characters working with the Transformers can engage people who’re above 12 years old and possibly even people who have breasts. Bay did the best thing he could with a property that adult audiences would find problematic to connect with. He cast future multiple Oscar-winner Shia LaBeouf. SMART! But the point was that the narrative of Transformers holds together better than the narrative of Star Trek, especially in regards to the villain. The fact that Transformers doesn’t try to be anything more than a popcorn action flick whereas Star Trek shoots for a target that’s a little harder to hit (using strongly established exisiting characters but having a new cast play them, for one) may have something to do with that, but it’s also part of why me and my buddy Ebert don’t think Transformers is a bad movie. The plot of Transformers follows a predictable, centuries-old formula, sure, but then so did Star Wars and ET.
And let’s not pretend Star Trek ’09 isn’t a dumbing down of what Star Trek was at it’s best. It takes a property which has built a fanbase of smart motherfuckers because of its exploratoion of classical science fiction questions and turned into a film that can be enjoyed by people who can’t even spell “science”. Tonally JJ’s Star Trek may not be as completely lunkheaded as Transformers but on the spectrum story-wise Star Trek is in the same region as a populist ‘splosion-filled popcorn flick like Transformers and not in the region of more thoughtful action sci-fi like Minority Report or District 9 or Inception or even Wrath of Khan.
Where JJ’s Star Trek wins is in the simple charms of ensemble chemistry, expert pacing and looking great and not in the smarts of a story being told or ideas being explored. That’s why I think JJ is right for Star Wars VII. Star Wars isn’t about sci-fi ideas, it’s about classic heroism vs classic villainy. He has a really solid story guy taking care of the writing and so all he has to do is make those characters pop, have the thing move like a champion and have it look awesome. I can’t think of many people in the world who are better than JJ Abrams at delivering that.
- Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.February 9, 2013 at 3:31 am #31893Version3Keymaster
Did you fuck yet? This thread is getting kinda long, and I have to get home to the kids.February 9, 2013 at 3:50 am #31928
Ebert liked Speed 2. So, yeah…nobody’s perfect.
I do see your point, kinda. We can agree that TF and ST ’09 weren’t as faithful to the original material. I’ll also agree that TF was originally not as smart as ST, but I hope that we can also agree that if these movies were kids, the ST kid probably would be one of those average kids, sometimes funny, sometimes brilliant, and the TF kid is the one that can’t sit still and eats paint chips and plays in the dirt by himself.February 9, 2013 at 11:44 am #31937ori-STUDFARMParticipant
@Bucho 50229 wrote:
I wonder if John Williams comes back or JJ’s boy Giacchino steps in. It seems sacrilege to suggest anyone other than JW score the film but Giacchino’s really damn good, particularly at taking existing themes and bringing new ideas to them. The Star Trek 09 score was my favourite of that year.
There’s been a lot a original music done on The Clone Wars cartoon that is very John Williams’/Star Wars sounding. But what about Arthur B Rubinstein? Too old?
I’ve loved his stuff ever since I got the Wargames soundtrack. I think he really changes his style up to suit what ever TV show or movie he is working on…
BIG JOBBIESFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm #31929
I’d love to say I knew who he was, but I had to look him up. He hasn’t done a score in 10 years, so he’s probably done.February 11, 2013 at 6:50 am #31910
HOW MUCH OF “BRAZIL” TOOK PLACE IN BRAZIL?!?!?!?
Oh, we’re past that now. Sorry Rob.
@rob 50236 wrote:
I think JW is pretty much done. He’s in his 80’s now.
He’s getting up there but he’s done Tintin, War Horse and Lincoln in the last couple of years so he seems to still be cracking along pretty nice. Oddly it’s become the biggest question for me right now in regards to this whole dealio, even above and beyond the casting.
- Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.February 11, 2013 at 7:21 am #31930
Well, those movies are all just Spielberg. I just don’t see him continuing with SW, especially without George in the driver’s seat. And at 81, he sadly just doesn’t have the time.
The thing that keeps getting me wondering is about what they’ll do for the stand-alone movies. We’ve heard rumors about Yoda, Han Solo, and Boba Fett so far, although I don’t think those are actually official, at least not yet.
The Yoda one would be sorta cool, but I also kinda like not knowing about what he was like when he was younger, although 900 years is quite a bit of time, and lots could be done.
Han Solo — John and I were actually talking about this one the other day. I don’t think that it’s really necessary, but with the right casting this could be genius. You could show him hooking up with Chewie, bustin’ caps in bounty hunters, fuckin’ all the loose alien chicks, and robbing Lando of the MF. Could be cool, and it would be interesting to see more of Han before he turned all soft and started humping Ewoks. In all seriousness, it’s just so wide open that it’s got to look good to them.
Boba Fett — I know Bryan probably hates this idea. I think they should expand it, and maybe not just focus on Boba, but just Bounty Hunters. All those cats on the Star Destroyer back in Empire — you know all of them had to be bad-ass, because Darth Vader wouldn’t skimp and just get ANY bounty hunters, he’d have to have the best. This is another one where the possibilities are just endless.February 11, 2013 at 4:54 pm #31938ori-STUDFARMParticipant
How would you guys feel about a Vader movie set between the two trilogy’s? Actually seeing what we didn’t get in the prequels. Vader being a ruthless mother fucker and striking fear across the Galaxy? Or would that be a little diluted now that we know what came before and what came after?
BIG JOBBIESFebruary 11, 2013 at 6:53 pm #31911
If they do anything like that Ori, I think it would be a few years down the track when a new batch of good Star Wars films has well and truly rinsed the taste of the prequels out of our collective mouth. I also don’t know how you build an interesting narrative around a villain like that, where he’s all bad all the time and has no arc. And if an artistic and intellectual giant like me can’t think of a way then there’s no way any of Hollywood’s greatest screenwriting minds could come up with one.
Yeah, Yoda’s been around so long you could do a 12 part series just on his adventures alone. Maybe for a long time he was a travelling, homeless warrior like Caine from Kung Fu, but reallt short and green, or like a Ronin, but really short and greeen. Maybe for some time he was a James Bond-like operative who’s really short and green, so we’ll get 23 Yoda films over the next 50 years and each one with it’s own theme song.
One of the only Star Wars books I’ve read was a bunch of short stories each focusing on one of the bounty hunters though. There were some fun ideas but nothing suggesting a feature film. It seems like this idea would be more suited to an Animatrix-esque side project. Or maybe an anthology like Paris Je t’aime, Coruscant Je t’aime. Or even better, a Love Actually-esque movie following the romantic lives of the bounty hunters. With Hugh Grant in it.
Of all of them a Han Solo film seems the most inevitable. Many of us have said for years that the problem with the Prequels was that the best Star Wars character of all was absent. As a kid I didn’t really care about light sabers and magic tricks either, I wanted a good blaster at my side and the fastest ship in the galaxy and to be the coolest mofo ever to wear a vest. And the second coolest mofo ever to wear storm trooper armour.
- Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.February 11, 2013 at 7:14 pm #31931
I think it’s really interesting to see what people really identify with in Star Wars, or at least look up to. Han Solo was cool and all, but I really looked up to Obi-Wan and eventually Yoda. Being a Jedi was always what I wanted to be, not a smuggler.February 11, 2013 at 8:21 pm #31912
Being a Jedi seemed like a lot of hard work and discipline to me. I was pretty unambitious. And lazy. And I loved vests. And I couldn’t help but notice the guy all the chicks talked about was the smuggler.
- Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.
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