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This topic contains 259 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by rob rob 1 hour, 39 minutes ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 241 through 255 (of 260 total)
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  • #65148
    Version3
    Version3
    Keymaster

    Yeah, yesterday was a weird day for me in terms of putting words onto the computer. Everything I wrote turned into 44x more words than were needed to say what I wanted. –See, it’s not just when I talk.

    #65179
    Bucho
    Bucho
    Participant

    This is a good idea. I know what I think about all of this, but I have no idea what I’ve said in the past (that’s pretty much ever). I’ll have to review this episode before we do a show… which we need to do.

    I don’t know if you need to go to the trouble of reviewing the episode, but if are going to listen to any classic SOS then Ep93 is a real good one – especially the second half-ish when you guys get heavy into Star Wars prequels analysis. Your description of fighting styles/stances and how they fit characters/personalities always stuck with me.

     

     

    I can never watch this show. Lena is among the people who have careers that I hate most in the world. Maybe she’s actually good, but since I super fucking hate HER, I can’t watch her. The hate is far too strong for her. I’ll just have to watch Adam in all of the other stuff he’s likely to be in for the next several years. Logan Lucky will be one we will hopefully just overlook. It was weak.

    Yeah, I don’t think I can either, which is why I assigned Robby to watch it and report back.

    Although I have to say I watched her guest on Richard Ayoade’s Travel Man and was expecting her presence to ruin that episode of what’s become one of my favourite shows and yet found her surprisingly not an abomination.

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #65185
    Bucho
    Bucho
    Participant

    I agree with quite a bit of what you say in those recently unearthed scrolls Bryan. Rather than respond to the whole shebang though I’ll dig out a few specific things to try and keep it manageable.

     

    … Poe is simplified too much in this movie. His fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants-decision-making nearly makes him one-dimensional, and while we are treated with some “growth experience” where he learns about becoming a leader… did he? I felt Poe’s role in the first battle sequence was pretty much his role in the whole movie; Stalling until he can kick a scene off with necessary actions. I like Oscar, but I didn’t identify with and give a shit about Poe this time …

    I know I’m in a minority on this one, but Poe – in both movies – kind of annoys the shit out of me. From the tone/quality of the jokes to the high-energy-eager-beaver vibe, to the super-talented-but-needs-strong-guidance-from-authority-figure dynamic he just reminds me too much of Jake Peralta from Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Jake Peralta from Brooklyn Nine-Nine annoys the shit out of me.

    And I say that as a pretty dang big Oscar Isaac fan. This specific character of his  just rubs me real wrong.

     

    … a dead bitch …

    YOU WATCH HOW YOU TALK ABOUT MY PRINCESS MISTER!

     

    Snoke is boring, but only because they let him be. I’d really really love to be invested in him a bit more (not like Bucho). I want to know how the fuck he rose to power. How did such an insanely powerful Sith exist and surface so late, with so much having already happened? He saw some shit and did some shit… just look at him! Just how powerful is he? He’s been around for a while (he turned Ben Solo within 20 years of ROTJ give or take), so what the fuck? I don’t want this all-powerful leader to just “be” without more to him.

    I’d have loved to have given more of a shit about him too, but neither JJ nor Rian was able to make him even slightly compelling to me – which is frustrating because I think they both made Kylo Ren the best movie villain since Ledger as The Joker.

    The main thing that bugs me is that this is the character who’s had the most MUH-HASSIVE, MUH-HONUFUCKNIGMENTAL effect on the way the galaxy has changed between Episodes VI and VII, but far more importantly on how Luke and Han changed between Episodes VI and VII, and most importantly of all on how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren. Snoke motivates not just the state of the galaxy but the behaviour of the heroes, including Rey who is constantly responding to Kylo, Luke and Han.

    So if the ST story is ABOUT Kylo, Luke and Han then it is inherently also ABOUT Snoke. Snoke is part of all of them, so not knowing how Snoke changed Kylo, Luke and Han into these versions of Kylo, Luke and Han robs each of those characters of potential added depths.

     

    Bucho, you make good points about Hamill. I wonder just how much of it was how good he really was at his craft (at the time), and how much of it was that he was “pretty good” but he’d really found a home in Luke and was able to play him to the point of being the definition on this person in the universe. I was never really sold on him until his voice work much later in his career. Maybe you are right about him.

    Dang right I do. I don’t think his success in Episode VI is necessarily due to having a tight control of his craft at that time, and is more to do with the character being a great fit for who Hamill was at the time. If I say the performance is underrated I’m actually mostly balking at the commonly expressed notion among Star Wars fans that Hamill’s performance is unconvincing because Luke’s goofiness in the film is somehow accidental, as if Hamill is trying to play a cooler kid and failing, whereas I think Luke’s dorkiness is both intentional and necessary.

     

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #65186
    Bucho
    Bucho
    Participant

    Chewbacca owes nobody a life debt and should be off trying to find somewhere to bury his wookie pole, or at least some kind of debt transference to Leia. We just like him, so we are okay with him just paling around with Rey. I feel like we should have gotten just a tid bit about real friendship, or kindred spirits or Force awareness or something. But, whatever, we like him.

    In Episode IV doesn’t Chewie give Han a look and a grunt as they load up their loot that says, “C’mon dude, we’re just going to let Luke and the gang take on the Empire without throwing our lot in with them?

    Then Han’s all, “What are you looking at, I know what I’m doing.

    Life debt or not (where did that even come from, one of those cack old EU books?), it always seemed to me as if Chewie was in favour of fighting the bad guys, even before Han was. That lovable old walking carpet has Rebel blood now.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Bucho Bucho.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Bucho Bucho.

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #65188
    Octavious
    Octavious
    Participant

    This is a good idea. I know what I think about all of this, but I have no idea what I’ve said in the past (that’s pretty much ever). I’ll have to review this episode before we do a show… which we need to do.

    I don’t know if you need to go to the trouble of reviewing the episode, but if are going to listen to any classic SOS then Ep93 is a real good one – especially the second half-ish when you guys get heavy into Star Wars prequels analysis. Your description of fighting styles/stances and how they fit characters/personalities always stuck with me.

    Me too.

    #65189
    Version3
    Version3
    Keymaster

    In Episode IV doesn’t Chewie give Han a look and a grunt as they load up their loot that says, “C’mon dude, we’re just going to let Luke and the gang take on the Empire without throwing our lot in with them?” Then Han’s all, “What are you looking at, I know what I’m doing.” Life debt or not (where did that even come from, one of those cack old EU books?), it always seemed to me as if Chewie was in favour of fighting the bad guys, even before Han was. That lovable old walking carpet has Rebel blood now.

    • This reply was modified 1 day, 10 hours ago by Bucho Bucho.

     

    Yep, I picked that up in my brain for the Timothy Zhan books I think. You are right, although even Wookiepedia seems to include it as a “thing”, the sources are cited as EU. So yeah. But still… he was never treated as ‘enlisted’ in the Rebel army, just always a sidekick. He’s treated like a bonus feature for Han, but I guess that feature is really part of the Falcon given this automatic transference? I can accept it in terms of what he’s doing in the movies, but thinking about the actual dynamic at play here is where I start to question things.

    #65191
    Bucho
    Bucho
    Participant

    In Episode IV doesn’t Chewie give Han a look and a grunt as they load up their loot that says, “C’mon dude, we’re just going to let Luke and the gang take on the Empire without throwing our lot in with them?” Then Han’s all, “What are you looking at, I know what I’m doing.” Life debt or not (where did that even come from, one of those cack old EU books?), it always seemed to me as if Chewie was in favour of fighting the bad guys, even before Han was. That lovable old walking carpet has Rebel blood now.
    <ul id=”bbp-reply-revision-log-65186″ class=”bbp-reply-revision-log”>
    <li id=”bbp-reply-revision-log-65186-item-65187″ class=”bbp-reply-revision-log-item”>This reply was modified 1 day, 10 hours ago by Bucho Bucho.

    Yep, I picked that up in my brain for the Timothy Zhan books I think. You are right, although even Wookiepedia seems to include it as a “thing”, the sources are cited as EU. So yeah. But still… he was never treated as ‘enlisted’ in the Rebel army, just always a sidekick. He’s treated like a bonus feature for Han, but I guess that feature is really part of the Falcon given this automatic transference? I can accept it in terms of what he’s doing in the movies, but thinking about the actual dynamic at play here is where I start to question things.

    Ah, y’see, I never got all the way through any of the EU books aside from Tales of the Bounty Hunters, but I have heard that word on the street is the Zahn books are the best of them.

    As for the dynamic at play, I’ve never felt like he was simply a bonus feature for Han or the Falcon. Or at least, not since Empire Strikes Back, when it became clear he loves Luke. To me it always played like Chewie was way into supporting his friends at the very least, if not being outright in support of the rebel cause. He’s openly affectionate toward and protective of both Leia and Luke, and still affectionate toward Leia when they meet again in The Force Awakens (leaving aside JJ’s self-acknowledged cock-up at not having them embrace on the tarmac after Han’s death), and the big lug seems to develop a protective, affectionate vibe toward Rey in The Force Awakens too.

    Then if we also factor in that he saw Ben kill Han so probably has some kind of unfinished business on at least a personal level, if not a galaxy-saving one, the notion that Chewie’s still fully on Team Rebels makes all the sense in the galaxy to me. It never even occurred to me that he’d just eff off as soon as Han was goneburgers.

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #65193
    rob
    rob
    Participant

    On the “missing” mini-show, I talk about this thread on Reddit talking about The Last Jedi.

    Basically, dude’s saying that he doesn’t like The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi because it invalidates everything Luke did in the OT and is actually damaging to the character’s “journey”.

    I’ve heard this so many different ways, even before The Last Jedi, so I wanted to discuss…

    First, TLJ or TFA don’t do anything of the sort – that’s like saying “since we defeated Hitler, there shouldn’t be any more hate or bad people in the world”. This is 30+ years later, so of course it’s possible that another faction rose from the ashes of the Empire to try to bring those ideals back to the galaxy, and they have the resources to try to make it happen.

    If his point is that by removing himself from the universe after almost deciding to kill his nephew and watching him destroy his temple and kill all of his students…well, maybe Luke learned that from Yoda and Obi-Wan, because they did the same thing. And they, too, believed that this scourge of the galaxy was beyond redemption.

    I actually really love how they did this – it puts Luke in a similar situation as Obi-Wan, and both believe that the evil they helped to create can’t be redeemed. Their proteges are the ones that do or have the chance to do that. I mean, Obi-Wan was telling Luke, “You’ve got to kill him, he’s the uber-badness, that fucker killed KIDS, he can’t be saved!” But Luke didn’t think so, and some might say he was stupid for trying! Sometimes it takes someone young enough and dumb enough to think that the impossible is possible. And that’s where I think Rey’s headed.

    As far as this being damaging to the character – I’m assuming it’s this lighting his lightsaber to kill Ben and then stopping himself, like “no, that’s not MY Luke. My Luke would never do that” (which really bugs me, as if Star Wars is just for you, you egotistical shitbag). But, motherfucker did the same thing in ROTJ! Does everyone remember that he snapped and almost killed Vader, the dude he was trying to save in the first place? He actually stopped himself with Ben WAY before he did with Vader, unfortunately Ben caught him in the middle of this and assumed he was going to kill him.

    I think the failings of the EU and this “they shouldn’t have made it non-canon” bullshit is just too much. I read the Thrawn trilogy, and even though it wasn’t horrible, it never felt like anything but fan fiction to me. I tried reading it again, and I can’t get through it. Yeah, some of that stuff was kinda cool, and they’ve brought back some of the better stuff (like Thrown), but really most of the EU was shit and I’m so GLAD that they took it out of the canon.

    I think part of the reason a lot of people don’t like TLJ is that in this day and age, everybody wants to know all the answers. We live in a world of now, now, now, and we get everything almost instantaneously (Netflix, Twitter, blah blah blah). Nobody likes to be teased anymore. The thing I loved about TFA was that all the answers weren’t given to you, and then with TLJ they basically destroyed everyone’s theories with Snoke and Rey. I think that’s awesome. And you know what? It’s probably better for it. I’m sure there’s someone out there right now writing THEIR version of what happened after TFA, but you know what? That shit doesn’t matter. It really is as simple as “if you don’t like it, don’t watch it”, but an even more obvious thing to say is “well, you didn’t write it.” How can you compare something to what it can never be? (And how many times will I say that?)

    I love the themes of failure, of getting old and not mattering anymore (and coming to grips with it). Sure, Maz doesn’t make any sense, the horse thing scenes weren’t the best CG-wise, and I could go on with some of the stuff I could do without, but come on, that movie was entertaining as hell!

    You know what? If you didn’t like it, cool, that’s your opinion. But, unlike the rest of the internet, I’m not going to say “you’re wrong, and here’s why” and try to convince you that you somehow aren’t enlightened enough to understand.

    #65200
    Bucho
    Bucho
    Participant

    I wasn’t down with some of the “whys” of The Last Jedi, but I find myself searching out the more positive voices like yours and various other Star Wars podcast hosts to listen to rather than anyone who had my types of problems with some of Rian’s decisions.

    It’s the same with the Prequels. I probably agree much more with something like Red Letter Media, but I find it much more intriguing and challenging and fun to read and listen to people like you and Bryan Young and Kyle Newman and others who are fans of the Prequels and can get me to potentially look at things differently from how I naturally do.

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #65201
    Bucho
    Bucho
    Participant

    Here’s something I can guarantee none of you guys have ever seen before even though it’s over a year old and has more than 50M views.

    This makes me so happy.

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #65202
    rob
    rob
    Participant

    I’m a huge fan of that.  When I first saw it I thought it was kinda meh.  But “that log had a child” is just fantastic.

    #65275
    Bucho
    Bucho
    Participant

    Trailer Robby should DEFINITELY talk about on his next recording:

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #65276
    Bucho
    Bucho
    Participant

    And while you’re at it Rob, how about that new Solo trailer?

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #65277
    rob
    rob
    Participant

    Oh, you know this is coming…

    #65286
    Octavious
    Octavious
    Participant

    The latest 45 second trailer that came out today looks really good.

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