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about michael jackson

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about michael jackson

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
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  • #2014
    Larkitect
    Participant

    [rant]does anyone in here really care that the dude is dead? and i’m not talking about the whole sanctity of life thing. i mean, i wish people were dead all the time but i don’t really mean it.

    i’m talking about the fact i didn’t know him and don’t really care if he’s gone because i’m not gonna miss him. my life will not be any different with or without him. with or without him oh-ooh. i can liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive with or without him. through the storm we reach the shore. you give it all but…

    i digress.

    i’m talking about the fact that the media make celebrity deaths so personal. it drives me crazy. like no one else. it drives me crazy and i can’t help myself…

    from digressing.

    i mean all of the big 3 networks had a 10 – 11 spot on jackson and fonda. some of these people they put on tv look like they’re grieving like they lost a family member. they look sadder than i would if my dog died, and i actually like him. and i’m from the south and we love our dogs (can i get a amen bing?)

    i’ll give the guy credit for being an incredible talent before he went all batshit crazy and started turning into a fugly white woman with a strange penchant for children. but the guy just hasn’t been relevant for years.

    and speaking of fugly white women, that is my prediction for the conspiracy theorists. in a year or two it will get out that he didn’t die but faked it so that he could live out his remaining years as a fugly white woman who lives in a gigantic shoe with a bunch of kids.[/rant]

    My essence still senses Bucho's women.

    #23241
    Version3
    Keymaster

    In the case of MJ… yes. The guy was a nutjob, no doubt. But a phenomenal artist in my opinion… a national treasure (in terms of artistry).

    Farrah? It’s notable that she passed, but as you said the media tries to make a big personal issue out of every celebrity death. Few of them are worth the coverage they get… I just happen to think that MJ is one that does deserve it.

    #23256
    Bing
    Participant

    Who was the last astronaut to die?

    Yeah, we got our shit all ass backwards…at least I would if I gave a shit…which is to say I didn’t. I was shocked at the Jackson thing but in a week I’ll wonder why after the media catapult of crap.

    Which is not to say I don’t care, I still miss Bernie Mac and I didn’t even know the man, never met him…wasn’t a huge fan when he was alive…but somehow I miss the fuck outta that guy.

    I didn’t like the self imposed suffering pity for me spotlight FF put on herself when she knew she was dying, so I’m a little jaded on that one. MJ? Well little boys can sleep a little sounder now. Thriller was awesome. He was a freak.

    Honestly I feel worse that 99% of the people who read that first line won’t know the answer and that I don’t know either.

    #23242
    Version3
    Keymaster

    Agreed Bing, but does that really tell us that we think to much of a person that many will call the single biggest pop icon of all time, or does it tell us more of what we think of historically important figures.

    It’s like trying to pick your ‘favorite’ child. The fact is we have enough love for all of them… the trouble is that we don’t make the example above important enough. We aren’t trained to care, and certainly unless it equals ratings, the media won’t cover it like they do celeb deaths. That’s the part that sucks.

    I totally agree of the FF coverage, sucks that anyone has to die like she has, but they have covered the hell of her life/death for days and weeks already.

    In my opinion, no Jacko doesn’t deserve ongoing coverage forever. He’s not 9-1-1 or anything. He’s not a beloved president that has passed. But I’ll let him have today, and I’ll be happy to pay the appropriate amount of attention and respect. When they are covering the hell out of this as a lead story in 4 or 5 days, of course it will be totally ridiculous. And I’m sure they will.

    #23243
    Version3
    Keymaster

    Google AdSense has got it’s shit down!

    #23259
    Larkitect
    Participant

    @Version3 40137 wrote:

    @Version3 40137 wrote:

    In the case of MJ… yes. The guy was a nutjob, no doubt. But a phenomenal artist in my opinion… a national treasure (in terms of artistry).

    Farrah? It’s notable that she passed, but as you said the media tries to make a big personal issue out of every celebrity death. Few of them are worth the coverage they get… I just happen to think that MJ is one that does deserve it.

    fair enough. its easier to see the other side when it comes from someone you feel is grounded in reality. (sorry bing :p )

    oh yeah, i did say fonda didn’t i? meant farrah. that was a legit freudian slip because deep down i do hope fonda dies a slow painful death.

    i shoulda mentioned thriller. man, if i had a nickel for everytime i listened to thriller. that was one of the absolute best albums of the 80’s. and how many times has that thriller video been imitated?

    see? i knew i kept you guys around for something. 🙂

    My essence still senses Bucho's women.

    #23260
    Larkitect
    Participant

    celebrity death comic

    My essence still senses Bucho's women.

    #23253
    digitaltopia
    Participant

    I’m reserving my opinion on this one. The guy might have been just as much of a weirdo as he seemed, or despite being a weirdo, underneath it all, he could’ve been a really nice guy. I just don’t know.

    But I have to agree with what Bing said. We place more importance on our entertainment figures than on the figures that have actually accomplished important things. There’s hope for you guys yet.

    #23249
    Bucho
    Participant

    @digitaltopia 40149 wrote:

    But I have to agree with what Bing said. We place more importance on our entertainment figures than on the figures that have actually accomplished important things. There’s hope for you guys yet.

    Yep, I think MJ made a bunch of really great tunes and busted out some cool dance moves, and I respect the moves he made in the charity world a great deal too, but I don’t know why he’s more important than, for example, any one of the hundreds of thousands of nurses who get paid fuck all to do really important work day in and day out.

    There are so many people who perform courageous, selfless tasks who toil without ever being celebrated but our pox-ridden excess-obsessed culture can’t help but be dazzled by the shiny people who dole out the entertainment. Spielberg? Beckham? Jolie? Hanks? I enjoy them and they do a nice job keeping us distracted from the real world once in a while but they’re feted like some kind of heroes and it ain’t right. They’re not heroes, they’re entertainers. The true heroes are riding in firetrucks and squad cars and ambulances and working in refugee camps and homeless shelters and serving in combat zones.

    I guess at the core of it is that these entertainers make the masses happy, while real heroes generally only affect a few people at a time. That tricks us into mass adulation of normal (if possibly creatively talented) people, manifested as this weird disease called fame, and this delusion that fame itself is a virtue fuels the flame of that adulation even further. The adulation of entertainers is understandable among teenagers, people who’re still forming their own identities and therefore searching for role models, but if that delusional hero-worship isn’t grown out of then it’s almost like a kind of mental sickness, something emotionally stunted adults cling to like a comfort blanket to fill a hole in their underdeveloped personalities. What’s tragic is that it seems like this illness affects the majority of our society.

    I’m bummed that MJ died, because the world’s lost someone who brought a little joy to many people (including me), but his loss is certainly no greater than many other great but anonymous people we will never know of.

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #23244
    Version3
    Keymaster

    Although many of the mass of society will act like they lost someone personally close to them with MJ, I don’t think it’s true of most celebrity deaths. The fact that they are covered like they are and sensationalized is the allmighty dollar at work; THATS’ what fucks up the priorities. But the fact that it’s news at all, or noteworthy above say a fireman or policeman’s death is because of familiarity, not fame. Fame is the part that makes it easy to sensationalize it. Let’s face it; like the media or not, you will pay far more attention to a headline that says Ed McMahon died than you would that says Bob McKenzie died… because who the fuck is Bob? Oh, he was a fireman that died in Jersey. Okay, you appreciate his sacrifice and all that, right… try to remember his name to tell someone else tomorrow. The fact is, you don’t know him or don’t know OF him, and that’s the reason it’s not typically noteworthy in most cases and the celebrity, or famous person is. They aren’t more important, but it’s not news if you didn’t know the person existed.

    Proximity combined with duty is the only equalizer here; if a policeman/fireman dies from your viewing area, and it was job-related it will be newsworthy. It’s not to say that one that retired and died isn’t a huge loss, more than an Ed McMahon or a Farrah Fawcett even; it says that nobody really has any way of knowing who the fuck this guy is, so it’s not news worthy. That’s the basis for the road to celebrity/political/generally famous people’s deaths being news and not the local hero.

    The only problem here, is the need for ratings/paper sales/site hits in the case of most celebrity deaths. And it’s the same thing I said before. The fact that it’s big news is absolutely big news for a day or two. No fireman, nurse of policeman alive has enriched, inspired or touched (creatively, we’ll save the little boy jokes for down lower) as many people as MJ. That makes him a pretty big loss. I’ll agree that it’s time to move on now, but it’s still a pretty big deal from where I sit.

    Additionally, it’s pretty hard to think out why his death gets so much attention without just calling it screwed up priorities. When this guy could have likely been pronounced on the scene with no pulse and no breath, do you think it was screwed up priorities in terms of what defines a hero that led them to rush him to the hospital and work on him for over an hour, or do you think it was the fear of being the ones that didn’t save him in the eyes of the media that caused it? I don’t know the answer, but I’d be the latter is a pretty big deal. Do you think it was screwed up priorities or concern that rabid fans and press would screw up the scenario that forced them to FLY/RUSH him to the autopsy location rather than let him sit in the basement for half a day or day like the rest of us would? I dunno again, maybe both.

    The point is, the human nature aspect is familiarity for most of the population. The problem doesn’t come into society as a rule, it comes into society as a practice (the a person is great, people are fucking stupid thought process); our susceptibility to media feeding is the foul, and the great perpetuator in my opinion.

    My simple point is this: I don’t think that the average person feels the loss of life in terms of Michael Jackson is MORE IMPORTANT than the loss of life with regard to a teacher/nurse/policeman/fireman. I do think they believe it’s a bigger overall loss. The world didn’t know that the teacher/nurse/policeman/fireman even existed, much less their individual impact on the world. The fact that people feel loss for an MJ-type death is not screwed up, it’s the human nature of familiarity, awareness and individual impact.

    That doesn’t make us screwed up (in and of itself), it’s not that different than the death of someone in one of your classes at your high school being more of a loss to you than someone in the next town. It’s only that the factors are quite heightened and exaggerated in the case made above (with MJ and fireman and such).

    The media generally is the only entity with it’s priorities screwed up. The average person (not people who are fucking dumb as a group) is not invested in it personally enough to call foul, but is invested only enough to fall victim to the model. That’s my thoughts.

    Dead Horse: beaten (and soul eaten by Bucho).

    #23257
    Bing
    Participant

    Did you guys hear that he died?

    #23250
    Bucho
    Participant

    Almost all of what you say I agree with Bryan, or at least it runs along similar lines to my post so we seem to be on the same page more or less, especially in regards to media priorities, which was what was driving most of my rant.

    The only point of contention we might have is where you say that no fireman, nurse or policeman alive has enriched, inspired or touched as many people as MJ. The way I see the world is that those people, as a group, enrich and touch our lives to a far greater extent than any entertainer just by doing their job. The easiest way to undestand this point of view is to imagine how we’d be living if, for example, there were no police anymore. When one dies in the line of duty they themselves might have been unknown, but they become the face of an organization that matters exponentially more to us than all the actors, singers and football stars in the world. The difference is that entertainers call mass attention to themselves by nature, and are associated with positive feelings, whereas we often only encounter the people who really matter when something has gone wrong in our lives and therefore they might come with a certain amount of negative association, and thinking about them doesn’t always mean warm fuzzies like I get when I picture Tom Cruise’s dreamy smile or Oprah’s sweet behind.

    The other thing I might need to clarify is that where I said people have something akin to a mental illness if they take their hero-worship of celebrity entertainers and sportspeople into adulthood, I’m really talking about the people who are interested in the celebrity to an unbalanced manner, to the point they feel more than just bummed out that we won’t be entertained by the person again, but they feel upset like someone they know has died. I can relate to it because when Stevie Ray Vaughn died I felt like I’d been kicked in the guts. But I was sixteen years old then, still a kid. There are grown adults out there now who are crying over this like their brother died. When I said that it seems like this illness affects the majority of our society, I meant that the reason it seems that way is because some media present it that way, not that it’s an actuality.

    The twist in the tail is that the current police investigation into MJ’s death is going to give this story legs beyond what we normally see, to the point it could rival the Lady Di saga, and, fittingly, her death was the last time we saw the same level of mass grieving.

    - Women sense my power and they seek the life essence.

    #23245
    Version3
    Keymaster

    @Bucho 40157 wrote:

    The only point of contention we might have is where you say that no fireman, nurse or policeman alive has enriched, inspired or touched as many people as MJ. The way I see the world is that those people, as a group, enrich and touch our lives to a far greater extent than any entertainer just by doing their job. The easiest way to undestand this point of view is to imagine how we’d be living if, for example, there were no police anymore. When one dies in the line of duty they themselves might have been unknown, but they become the face of an organization that matters exponentially more to us than all the actors, singers and football stars in the world. The difference is that entertainers call mass attention to themselves by nature, and are associated with positive feelings, whereas we often only encounter the people who really matter when something has gone wrong in our lives and therefore they might come with a certain amount of negative association, and thinking about them doesn’t always mean warm fuzzies like I get when I picture Tom Cruise’s dreamy smile or Oprah’s sweet behind.

    I get your point of contention, but it seems to me like it’s a miss at what I was saying. First, I was speaking generally of a any single person filling those heroic roles. I’d not have someone believe that a single person in one of those roles could never make a bigger global contribution than a Michael Jackson, I was stating that generally no single person filling one of those roles does. But what they do is far more valuable, obviously. It’s just on a much smaller scale in terms of those direction affected by their actions and performance.

    Your example though, is really way off. I do know what you are saying, but that’s in extreme example… very extreme. I said “a” person filling one of those roles, not all of them. If you want to use your example, then all of the policemen, or all of the fireman… hell ALL of the teachers for that matter are more valuable than any single world leader that has ever existed. So that’s a very inflated point the way I read it. As I said, I think what they do is of more value by far… only an idiot wouldn’t agree with that to at least some degree. They (as a single individual) are far less likely to have a direct global impact, and therefore are never going to have the degree of notoriety when they pass. It doesn’t make a person’s values screwed up if they see it that way in my opinion… just if they think what he did was more valuable than soldiers, and police and so on and on.

    Totally agreed on the fanatics. But then, I think that’s true of fanatical fans of anything. Grow up people!

    #23262
    Stuart
    Participant

    Hi guys, I don’t know if this is really where I should be introducing myself, but I just chose this avatar, so maybe it is a good place to start.
    MJ was the man, and I never believed those people who said he raped their kids. Think they were just looking for money.

    To answer your question; Do I really care he’s dead? Not really, I mean I never wlooked forward to him coming out with new songs so fuck it. I don’t care.
    Just remember him for what he was. The worlds greatest dancer and entertainer.

    Peace guys.

    #23254
    digitaltopia
    Participant

    Welcome to the forums Stuart. Do you have your automatic thread subscription setting turned on? I don’t know if it’s turned on automatically or not. It makes it a lot easier to keep up with things around here.

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